obviously I'm aware of that, but like I said, if I can make a choice, I would rather do it than not. Some other considerations that factor in, for example: I did take money from google to make a game. But I was certain it wouldn't make its money back, so I was taking that money from them and distributing it to my team rather than contributing back to the source. of course they can write off any losses, but it's slightly better than actively giving them money. Choice is largely an illusion under our current systems but why not practice exercising the better choices available in anticipation of a better system existing some day, or as an example to future generations who might live under such a system. Also if I weren't leaning toward this side with my choices I could very definitely a be rich libertarian money hoarder like so any other bay area people. Though I can't eject myself from the economic interactions that prop up all these people I can at least choose not to support them *this directly.* It's not much but it's better than zero. Like obviously me recycling, reusing bags, and walking instead of driving doesn't do much in the grand scheme when most of our pollution problems stem from an extremely small number of companies, but that doesn't mean strewing my trash around and driving a humvee when I want to go two blocks wouldn't negatively impact the environment more than what I'm doing.

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Posted by exodus on December 02, 2020 at 17:04:37 EST in reply to You must know that enriching and supporting people like Mohammed bin Salman is the result of almost every single economic interaction in your life. That's just the way society is organized today. Working for this company instead of that one or buying that product instead of this one doesn't change anything about who derives profit from you. Are you actually so upset that he's doing it with his real name instead of through the usual anonymous international banking and investment corp? I guess that does put a bit more stress on the implicit bargain we make by living in modern society doesn't it? (n/t) from Convenience and Opa Opa.

obviously I'm aware of that, but like I said, if I can make a choice, I would rather do it than not. Some other considerations that factor in, for example: I did take money from google to make a game. But I was certain it wouldn't make its money back, so I was taking that money from them and distributing it to my team rather than contributing back to the source. of course they can write off any losses, but it's slightly better than actively giving them money. Choice is largely an illusion under our current systems but why not practice exercising the better choices available in anticipation of a better system existing some day, or as an example to future generations who might live under such a system. Also if I weren't leaning toward this side with my choices I could very definitely a be rich libertarian money hoarder like so any other bay area people. Though I can't eject myself from the economic interactions that prop up all these people I can at least choose not to support them *this directly.* It's not much but it's better than zero. Like obviously me recycling, reusing bags, and walking instead of driving doesn't do much in the grand scheme when most of our pollution problems stem from an extremely small number of companies, but that doesn't mean strewing my trash around and driving a humvee when I want to go two blocks wouldn't negatively impact the environment more than what I'm doing.

n/t

Follow Ups:

I don't see what makes the choice of Royalty Investment Partners, Llc. better than the Muhammed bin Salman Charitable Foundation. Is there something other than a bargain you've made for your silence in the name of convenience that makes them different? If the difference really is only that the public attachment of his name makes it hard for you to turn the other way, then the problem with taking a stand over the choice is that it implicitly strengthens the current system and the people who profit from it by giving the impression that you think one of the two choices is acceptable. This strenthens the bargain, both in your own conscience and for other people. As a result any path to this "better system" you vaguely imagine becomes more and more untenable. You should thoroughly and equally condemn all choices made within this system. Focus all of your attention on your own hipocrisy rather than deflecting it with imaginary ethical decisions.

(The Little Death and Total Obliteration)

(17:51:54 12/02/20 EST)

There’s nothing imaginary about feeling like shit for taking a paycheck from a company known to be controlled by one of the worst dudes living on planet Earth, which is the situation exodus would be in if he didn’t abandon whatever project I’m sure he’s been thinking about since the Samurai collection finished up. Your emotional distance from the situation is perhaps easier given your physical distance from the situation. Would you take $20 to mow his lawn if you just saw him push a button that launched a missile into a hospital? Maybe you would because, after all, it wouldn’t bring the hospital back. Not everyone is so enlightened though. Frankly this situation is very shitty but also very simple. I wouldn’t like walking away from them, as a customer or a consultant, but it wouldn’t be a difficult choice at all.

(SignOfZeta)

(12:59:46 12/03/20 EST)

No, you haven't been paying attention to what I said. I don't think anyone should accept working for Muhammed bin Salman. Working for him would be absolutely terrible and a moral trap, BUT SO IS WORKING FOR ANY CORPORATION. My comment was not just in response to exodus, either. It was also in response to other comments here, like yours, about not buying from SNK anymore. Buying stuff from Muhammad bin Salman would be absolutely terrible and a moral trap, BUT SO IS BUYING STUFF FROM ANY CORPORATION. This is not just because of some @CapitalismIsEvil bullshit, it's because all of your economic interactions literally benefit Muhammad bin Salman and other people exactly him, regardless of whether their names are attached to the companies. You know this just as well as I do and the only reason you don't make the exact same connection is that you've internalized the terms of a bargain with your conscience in which you agree not to think about the how your actions support these people and their system. I make that bargain, too, but I cannot accept its terms.

(Cuckness Unto Death and Opa Opa)

(14:26:44 12/03/20 EST)

I think exodus and Zeta won't appreciate your distinction until they've delved deep into the Motörhead discography and steeped themselves in many hours of Lemmy interviews on Youtube. It'll be a long process. There was a thread probably 15 years ago where the same argument played out over the morality of shopping at Target vs. Walmart. You can guess exactly how the ideologies diverged on that one.

(substance J)