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Hengband
  PCRoguelikeJPN  
  opened by paleface at 19:32:51 02/13/22  
  last modified by paleface at 22:22:02 05/23/22  
  paleface [sys=PC; cat=Roguelike; loc=JPN]
           
This is why you don't make a Sexy Beastmaster 'o'
 

 
0:00 - what "Hengband" means in Japanese!
4:05 - new ASCII features: large view, subwindow controls
17:35 - world map & wilderness
23:45 - PosChengband-style subwindow commands
27:55 - my compiling commands
30:39 - Sexy Beastmaster character creation
35:28 - town, Scrawny Horse named Wobbly, shopping
45:48 - Yeek cave depth 1
56:08 - Wobbly evolves into a Horse!
59:41 - depth 2 & summoning spiders
1:04:31 - a dead-end floor??
1:06:01 - shaft from floor 1 to 3
1:07:11 - my spiders turn on me! 'o'
1:12:21 - Louses kill Wobbly, I don't notice 'o'
1:13:29 - spiders turn on me again!
1:18:40 - Domination fails 'cause beasts hate the Sexy 'o'
1:24:59 - torches running out but no way up!!
1:32:17 - fainting forgetting to eat, didn't notice 'ooo'
1:33:08 - wrap-up & what's next!
 
Floors in the Yeek cave persist, which is unusual in 'bands. But they don't connect between separate sets of staircases, I think, so if you go down a staircase, then travel around, find a different staircase up, and take that, you'll find yourself on an unexplored map, even though it has the same depth as one you were on before. I think--did a quick test run-around after this recording.
 
And I was so preoccupied with the dwindling torches and dead-end floors--and being up past my bed-time--that I completely failed to notice I was forgetting to eat the thus starving to death--which happens in the space of just over a single game "hour," it turns out; less than two minutes of playing time! == oooo (Later I thought maybe if I hadn't turned on the skip all messages option then I would have caught some warning, but I tested that and nope, you still starve nice and smoothly quietly just the same with the default settings.)
 
Well, I didn't feel too bad about dying in such a foolish way seeing as how I'd also been foolish in making the character, since the "Sexy" female-exclusive personality I'd taken to get +3 charisma, boosting my Beastmaster summoning spell power, also aggravated all monsters, making them so mad my Beastmaster "Dominate" powers wouldn't work on them--so I could summon well, but not dominate monsters I found, and even some of my spell-summoned seemed to turn on me!
 
(Incidentally, summons specifically from a Scroll of Summon Monster do seem to be hostile anyway, usually, as I found in later testing; I was confused because one I used with an earlier character summoned a unique (forget their name, terror of the USSR or something?) that did not attack me, maybe that's just how that unique works though.)
 
At 1:08:00 the "Lev 3" floor name in the lower right of the view window turns yellow when "You feel nervous" prints in the message window--I think that's showing the floor rates as dangerous. But then at 1:10:20 it dims a little to orange as "You feel your luck is turning..." appears; I had killed Yu'uichi the arsonist in the mean time, but also my spiders had turned on me!
 
When my horse evolved from a scrawny horse I went from Riding speed 0 to speed -3, is that...good?
 
Not sure if Hengband still has the lighter-weapons-dominate thing that vanilla Angband does, but I can't find anything saying it doesn't. I *think* maybe something was done about that in FrogComposband but eh I can't find definite documentation on that (the classic change to it was in Oangband, forked into FAangband).
 
The "Hengband" title via Google translate: https://translate.google.com/?sl=ja&tl=en&text=%E5%A4%89%E6%84%9A%E8%9B%AE%E6%80%92&op=translate
 
The version of Zangband Hengband forked from, with the wilderness code it would expand into a much larger map, was an earlier Zangband; later Zangband dropped the fixed tiny wilderness map and replaced it with a completely randomly generated wilderness, with no handy zoom-out (left pointy bracket) to map function.
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
I compile with these commands in Cygwin:
 
git clone https://github.com/hengband/hengband.git
cd hengband
aclocal
autoconf
autoheader
automake --add-missing
autoreconf
./configure --disable-japanese
make install CXXFLAGS="-g0 -O2"
 
Then delete the "Hengband" directory of VS build files inside my hengband project directory so it won't block running the compiled .exe with
 
./hengband -- -right 46x24,* -top *x12
 
  paleface 11:57:37 02/15/22
           
Turns out http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showpost.php?p=157573&postcount=4 my horrific brain pilfered what it thought was a clever original name for the horse ("Wobbly" since the horse was moving erratically around town) from an Angband forum member! = ooo
 
Gonna have to stop trying to come up with names on the fly; not like I can keep even my @ alive anyway, much less anyone else. This latest did stick around slightly longer than my last horse, "Carrot" (NOT named accidentally after any Angband forum member, at least)...who probably just momentarily staggered into the woods around the newbie dungeon before I'd even got going down into it really (they obviously had the right idea...)...and then I accidentally set them on "seek and destroy"...and they were never seen again~~
 
 
  paleface 13:40:37 02/15/22
           
And OH! When I mounted my horse @ 35:50, it said my weapon wasn't suitable for riding--because it was a whip--because a Beastmaster usually starts w/ spear, but Sexy overrides that with a whip. Another clue Sexy & Beastmaster aren't compatible that I just missed. ; )
 
  paleface 19:16:39 03/06/22
           

 
11th level Barbarian Berserker: My "Recall" ability says "MP 10" which turns out to mean that it takes off six or seven HP when I use it; also fails a lot, prob 'cause INT/WIS are 3.
 
Without being able to read scrolls, or afford store buy-back, left with inventory "feeling" on gear; so far, "{good}" and "{excellent}" items haven't been cursed, so wear/wielding those. Get feels fast on most weap/armor, never(?) on rings. Before I learned this, sold what turned out to be an ego trident (from Smeagol). Ah.
 
Poison wears off this char really fast! And so many HP, even CCW potions seem insignificant.
 
Dual-wielding two less enchanted weapons I found farther down in Yeek cave, I'm now doing 280+ damage per round which seems ridiculously overpowered for character level 19!
 
My female Barb Berz got titled "Rage Prince" at lev 16. Was going to put in a bug that it should be "Rage Princess" for a female but eh that wouldn't fit in the left-hand column there, so...I dunno. There just shouldn't be gender assigned to characters anyway, I think that's what vanilla Angband does now.
 
Found some "vault"-like spaces that were completely shut-in and had to be dug into, with usually nothing or maybe one small monster inside. Did find some biggish caverns scattered around Yeek cave depth 11, that was a nice variation.
 
I'd thought Yeek cave (from glancing through source files) only went down 8 floors, but it kept going for a bit. ; )
 
When first used the Recall ability in town (CL 12, Yeek lev 8), I only had the Yeek cave option. When I did it next (1:36:01 , CL 17, Yeek 12), I had another option: Angband level 1! What causes that to appear? And there's a hint about Angband you can get from the rumor option at the town inn or whatever, I noticed later--that was the first one I got there. Angband itself is located sorta midway east across the continent. Oh and I found when I accidentally wandered SE from town, that if you recall from the wilderness to a dungeon, then back, you go back to that spot in the wilderness, rather than to the last town you were in. Good to know!
 
Thought my big 3 stats couldn't be drained but CON went from 18/82 to 18/80 from a diseased Nurgling bite.
 
Oh! My CHR went up two points from wielding that Lochaber Axe--this is the kind of boost I don't get to see because of not having regular IDing access, but I should have been able to spot that on my character sheet (it went down 1 later from a graze busting through a glass door for a silly quest in town 2:13:04; restored it via Potion of Restore Charisma 2:18:24).
 
  paleface 12:12:23 03/07/22
           
EpicMan on the Angband forum tells me "The Mayor in Outpost can ID your gear for a price. You will be without *ID* until you get to another town, where the library will offer 'Research Item'."
 
  paleface 23:41:06 04/05/22
           
Starting a High-Elf Weaponsmith!
 

 
1:22:38 - Dump Witness quest
 
Oh I forgot to try that "O" key "Judgment" power (11:30) again once I hit level 5.
 
I was thinking of reporting the inclusion of Hato Poppo, whose description calls him a "natural human," in the Bird category of the monster Knowledge base (1:31:59) as a bug, but I think I enjoy imagining him as a secret bird man.
 
I generally hate "crafting" in games but this weaponsmithing thing actually seems kind of cool so far. It also seems like something that could just end up way overpowered, but there's a ton I don't know about, like, what are the limits on how many enchantments an item can have, what enchantments can go on what items, and so forth.
 
I looked back at my previous play of the "Danger level: 5" "Dump Witness" quest, and there is indeed a Cloaker hiding in the middle of the main room--that's a level 13 monster. It didn't kill my Barbarian Berserker because they were a) level 19 and b) had an item of Free Action, so it couldn't paralyze them--but I still don't think it's very cool to ambush a noob with a level 13 monster in a "level 5" quest, and probably the very first quest they take; it was making THIS noob think they just shouldn't try quests anymore; one moment the level 6 weaponsmith was checking out the "items" scattered around the room, no monster in sight in the room, and the next they were dead on the floor, having been ambushed, paralyzed, and killed by the cloaker--a monster over twice their level--in the blink of an eye.
 
And the Killer Bee, behind glass in the adjoining room, is level 9. How is this "Danger level 5"??
 
(This was originally written on 4/3)
 
I've reported this to the Hengband team as an issue to look at: https://github.com/hengband/hengband/issues/2472 . They may just tell me "get good, noob," which is legit; or possibly they *like* teaching the player a harsh lesson at the beginning, to try to teach you to do things I'm too lazy to do, like constantly using detection spells/abilities, or making sure to get an item with Free Action before you do anything at all (although I'm now level 8 and don't think I've seen one yet, drat).
 
Guess I ain't gonna try that quest again until I get something with Free Action. I suppose I could try shooting the cloaker from across the room with the crossbow I have now...but if it survived that barrage it could still paralyze and kill me. Yeah better get Free Action first.
 
Update 4/4:
 
The developers' reply actually covered "get good, noob," schooling the player, and using a ranged weapon: 'Mimics are NOT move, so player can easily defeat them by long-range attacks.
The game has a myriad of enemies that can easily bury the unprepared player.
This quest is responsible for conveying the "die and learn" balance of the entire game.
"danger level" 5 is intended.'
 
So I guess you're supposed to use enemy detection of some sort? Not that my level 6 character had any sort of detection capability yet anyway. (In later conversation, they seemed to think that the level 5 player should know to automatically examine a cloak item with "x" or "I" before approaching it, in case it is a disguised monster...) I dunno, this whole bit seems like a big turn off--on quests, at least. I wonder if Hengband's random dungeons are going for "die and learn" balance as well--if they are, I may just have to stick to Angband, which has a fairly explicit don't-require-lore mantra, and in recent years (decades?) at least has gone for a "don't just kill the player with something new instantly" approach to balance, which is much closer to my preference.
 
Players tell me that most of Hengband's quests aren't this bad, although a few, apparently, are. I'm also told they're all skippable, except for the two about killing the big bads at the bottom of the Angband dungeon to win.
 
  paleface 18:04:29 05/16/22
           
Level 12 High-Elf Weaponsmith at Lev 8 of the Yeek cave:
 

 
The game froze after a big fight on Lev 9 and I had to restart! = o (I've reported the bug to the Hengband team and sent them my recovery save files, I don't suppose those will give them enough data to debug it, though.)
 
At the end I said I'd play Angband next time, but I think maybe I'll keep playing Hengband--because I'm really getting antsy to see a non-Yeek cave, non-Angband dungeon! The variety of races and classes are kind of fun to mess with and all, but the Yeek cave is too easy to be that fun, and what I've seen of Hengband's version of the Angband dungeon is just Angband with kludgier floor generation--and the "quests" proved to be death traps--so the make or break for me in Hengband may be whether playing the OTHER dungeons is compelling. (Starting to think this is unlikely, since the real genius of Moria/Angband is the self-balancing nature of the single, down-makes-harder, infinitely replayable dungeon, whereas breaking the game up into multiple dungeons necessarily breaks, to at least for some time and to some degree before you get re-acclimated in the next dungeon, that self-balancing. And I've yet to find that sort of compelling experience in Hengband's Yeek cave and "Angband" dungeon.) (Also, that crash was kind of a downer.)
 
Was actually using a Rod of Trap Location this time--after embarrassingly forgetting once and getting my Dex drained : PPP--so that was kind of interesting, it's sort of fun to zap the Rod and clear out all those detection "x" marks from the map.
 
  paleface 22:22:02 05/23/22
           
Starting with my level 16 High-Elf Weaponsmith at level 11 of the newbie Yeek cave, not watching my health and dying like a fool (might've helped if the low health warning was in red like in vanilla Angband, but that's just an excuse; I'm really not heads up enough to have the skip-more options set like I do 'p'; oh well and in Vanilla the arrows would have been visibly animated, I suppose that might've clued me in), rolling a new random character--a Half-Giant Mirror-Master--and skipping out of the Yeek cave at character level 10 to try at least SOME new dungeon...
 

 
Mirror-Master sounded pretty different from the description, and it was nice just to get spells in a menu and not have to bother with spell books, but the low level spells at least were all pretty much generic-style mage things: detection, bolt, teleports, light. Except that last, level 10 one, "Robe of Dust"--couldn't tell what that "Mirr" status did. Magic armor of some kind? Wish the spells had help text.
 
Did have fun insta-zapping people with my macro'd light bolts, though! Maybe playing mage classes won't be so bad!
 
I pretty much always die when I'm rushing around trying to get somewhere else. Maybe that's why I'm doing better in Vanilla--only one dungeon, so there's no where else to be. (I guess maybe it's a little more randomized, too, since the single dungeon doesn't have a specific theme.)
 
Also I'm going to have to learn how to retreat for real as a mage and not stubbornly faff about.
 
Also I'd thought the "level" indication on the dungeon entrances on the Surface map was character level, but given that Orc cave is labeled "level 10" and the first floor in there is "Lev 10," I guess their map label is actually dungeon floor level, so I jumped from Yeek cave "Lev 5" to Orc cave "Lev 10." Yeek cave is way too easy though so I probably could'a managed okay in Orc cave if I'd retreated sensibly.
 
Anyway, trying to sort of make my mind up or compare or whatever between Hengband and Angband was kind of driving me crazy. Now that I've at least seen a different style dungeon in Hengband, I feel like I'm good for a while there, and I'll settle down to focus on some Angband adventuring.
    
references:
· Angband (PC)
· FrogComposband (PC)
· Umoria (PC)
· Zangband (PC)

 
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